I like that you stress the motivation behind God doing what He did, in Jesus coming in human flesh (to draw closer to us, His creation, in whom He delights). And that may have just been the point of your post here. Which is an important one, since so many preachers have presented God as someone who does not really want to put on dirty flesh but prefers to remain aloof in different kind of cleaner or holier environment.
However, what do you think is really going on in the point that Paul makes in Romans 8:8, concerning our inability to please God in the flesh? Do you think literal physical flesh is what he is referencing here? Is what Christ accomplished for us merely a renunciation of a wrong doctrine, that all flesh is sinful and incapable of drawing close to God? Or could it be that Paul is just using the term "flesh" as shorthand for a mindset that is at odds with God's higher "spiritual" agenda?
If we follow Paul's train of thought from Romans 8:1-14 we see that our problem is not really physical flesh at all, but a life that is devoid of the leading of His Holy Spirit. And to make the point even more clear starting in v.15 Paul distinguished God's Spirit from the "spirit of slavery" which we are ruled by if God's Spirit is not leading us.
There seems to be blind spot in our focus, because we identify ourselves so much by our physical properties, which are indeed created to be good, to then overlook the deeper issues at play. Certainly God has no problem entering our human flesh that He created, but the bigger question is, can God work in a heart that is not submitted fully to Him? According to Romans 10:9-10 this issue is indeed a heart condition problem.
"If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses resulting in salvation."
Hey Benjamin, I agree with you here. In my post I tried to make the point that Paul didn’t have physical flesh in mind but that many in the ancient world did believe that the flesh was inherently evil (gnostics, for instance).
I believe that “flesh” in Romans is a mode of existence that is opposed to the life of the Spirit. Paul says shortly after verse 8, “But you are not in the flesh…”
Hey Daniel, I really appreciate you taking the time to reply to my comments. I figured you would understand the concept of "flesh" in the same way as me, I just thought it would be perhaps helpful to clarify it a little more in relationship to what you had posted here. 😁
It's been difficult during the season I've been in recently to find other brothers to engage with about scriptural interpretation, and I have really enjoyed being challenged and encouraged by your teachings. I think you're providing a valuable service to God's Kingdom!
And I'm grateful to have come across to you even though we live on different sides of the country and come from very different church backgrounds.
Hey Daniel,
I like that you stress the motivation behind God doing what He did, in Jesus coming in human flesh (to draw closer to us, His creation, in whom He delights). And that may have just been the point of your post here. Which is an important one, since so many preachers have presented God as someone who does not really want to put on dirty flesh but prefers to remain aloof in different kind of cleaner or holier environment.
However, what do you think is really going on in the point that Paul makes in Romans 8:8, concerning our inability to please God in the flesh? Do you think literal physical flesh is what he is referencing here? Is what Christ accomplished for us merely a renunciation of a wrong doctrine, that all flesh is sinful and incapable of drawing close to God? Or could it be that Paul is just using the term "flesh" as shorthand for a mindset that is at odds with God's higher "spiritual" agenda?
If we follow Paul's train of thought from Romans 8:1-14 we see that our problem is not really physical flesh at all, but a life that is devoid of the leading of His Holy Spirit. And to make the point even more clear starting in v.15 Paul distinguished God's Spirit from the "spirit of slavery" which we are ruled by if God's Spirit is not leading us.
There seems to be blind spot in our focus, because we identify ourselves so much by our physical properties, which are indeed created to be good, to then overlook the deeper issues at play. Certainly God has no problem entering our human flesh that He created, but the bigger question is, can God work in a heart that is not submitted fully to Him? According to Romans 10:9-10 this issue is indeed a heart condition problem.
"If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses resulting in salvation."
Hey Benjamin, I agree with you here. In my post I tried to make the point that Paul didn’t have physical flesh in mind but that many in the ancient world did believe that the flesh was inherently evil (gnostics, for instance).
I believe that “flesh” in Romans is a mode of existence that is opposed to the life of the Spirit. Paul says shortly after verse 8, “But you are not in the flesh…”
Thanks for your insight
Hey Daniel, I really appreciate you taking the time to reply to my comments. I figured you would understand the concept of "flesh" in the same way as me, I just thought it would be perhaps helpful to clarify it a little more in relationship to what you had posted here. 😁
It's been difficult during the season I've been in recently to find other brothers to engage with about scriptural interpretation, and I have really enjoyed being challenged and encouraged by your teachings. I think you're providing a valuable service to God's Kingdom!
And I'm grateful to have come across to you even though we live on different sides of the country and come from very different church backgrounds.