Very finely synthesized. Thank you… I’m gonna subscribe and better support when I get my affairs in order, as you are doing my homework. As far as Apostle Paul goes, sounding a bit retribtutional in 1 Thessalonians, well, he echoes the prayer of the martyred saints in the heavenly setting of Revelation when the fifth seal of the scroll is opened: “how long til you avenge our blood among the inhabitants of the Land?”
If we cringe at Paul for his ease with divine persecution, the martyrs in heaven, as purified as any soul can be, might make us blush. But the martyrs are praying for their blood, that is, for their survivers in the Land; blood is the language of kinship. Likewise, Paul sees himself as an intimate parental figure to the faithful he evangelized: they are his blood in the Body of Christ. Now parental bonds are fierce and may in the moment of threat to their children, their blood may boil and the language of wrenching violence may flare. It is pure mammilian, primate nature, David in the Psalms makes it pray. Jesus on the cross crushes the serpent’s head even if the otherwise wily snake doesn’t know it yet. At any rate the impulse to violent speech and retribution in prayer should not be suppressed. Is is authentic and it vents rather than magnifies violence, for the believers. But it is the Jungian inverse of the much more dominant and essential element of covenant faith: mercy, forgiveness and reconciliation . As with God, anger flashes for its moment (a cameo appearance in the theatre of suffering vicariously for one’s blood-kin) but a lifetime His good will. For one’s self, no violence; for one’s kids, look out!”
Yes, violence and retribution, especially on behalf of others do show quite easily, and we should be comfortable with those emotions and understand that God can handle them when we voice them in prayer or song.
But as we mature in Christ, perhaps we can adopt the spirit of Jesus and of Stephen and pray for the forgiveness of our persecutors. Maybe even the saying that mercy triumphs and judgment will become true for ourselves.
Thank you. As for oneself, like Stephen, one must mature into the forgiveness of one’s torturers. And even the torturers of one’s children one must so mature; but in the hour of my children’s torture, the flair of fierce protection needs no maturing, it is the serrated edge of love itself; to lay down one’s life for the beloved .
Had Adam exercised this edge of love, he would have died trying to defend his beloved, even to being devoured in its jaws. So Jesus accomplished this and more by dying and being swallowed in the grave.
A week before however he formed a whip of cords for the protection of the beloved for whom he wept.
Daniel once again you have added clarity to thoughts I have had over the last year or two, great insight.
Yes we are living in His Kingdom that has no end and we are also living with and serving a living God that does not change. The OC had adjustments brought through Noah, Moses, David and especially Christ.
As you said here "it was the natural outcome of following the path of violence and forsaking the way of peace." we too as a world, just as Israel had done at the appointed times , invite a cleansing future into our lives. It has happened in our pasts personally and globally, and thank God will continue to happen. This New Covenant or New Heaven created by God is a perfect place for His children to reach the ends of their rope and cry out to Him.
I really don’t understand??? You have been a foremost Bible exegete to me, but now you’re “flipping script”, and commenting on I Thessalonians 1-2 about Jesus’ coming to have vengeance on his enemies as “ not being LOVING”?? Yes this is outside of context, yes this comment is not yours to make…
Is Jesus comments in John 6 that “no one can come to the Father unless He draws them” not loving? Or in Christ High Priestly prayer, “ I pray not for the world but those you’ve given me” is that NOT loving? When you cease exegetical practice and go extra- biblical thoughts/philosophy YOU lose everything!?!? Dude, why ?
I’m sorry you can get all I know..
I’m not being confined to a system, that’s fine.
But when you lose the premise and motif of biblical basics, like almost denouncing the book you wrote, I can’t remember the title, something like “the last death”, dude what happened to you?!
Where did you go? I know I have heard from you in Preston circles, but I grew in my faith on your exegetical work! Did you go the route of Sam Frost? From 2017-2022 I was amazed how you could through your Bible programs, correlate/cross reference OT/NT! That’s YHVH purpose for HIS living word! No more? Why? Is it you can’t make an income in that ideology? Idk, God will always provide. But I’m pulling my Substack subscription. I’m sorry….
Very finely synthesized. Thank you… I’m gonna subscribe and better support when I get my affairs in order, as you are doing my homework. As far as Apostle Paul goes, sounding a bit retribtutional in 1 Thessalonians, well, he echoes the prayer of the martyred saints in the heavenly setting of Revelation when the fifth seal of the scroll is opened: “how long til you avenge our blood among the inhabitants of the Land?”
If we cringe at Paul for his ease with divine persecution, the martyrs in heaven, as purified as any soul can be, might make us blush. But the martyrs are praying for their blood, that is, for their survivers in the Land; blood is the language of kinship. Likewise, Paul sees himself as an intimate parental figure to the faithful he evangelized: they are his blood in the Body of Christ. Now parental bonds are fierce and may in the moment of threat to their children, their blood may boil and the language of wrenching violence may flare. It is pure mammilian, primate nature, David in the Psalms makes it pray. Jesus on the cross crushes the serpent’s head even if the otherwise wily snake doesn’t know it yet. At any rate the impulse to violent speech and retribution in prayer should not be suppressed. Is is authentic and it vents rather than magnifies violence, for the believers. But it is the Jungian inverse of the much more dominant and essential element of covenant faith: mercy, forgiveness and reconciliation . As with God, anger flashes for its moment (a cameo appearance in the theatre of suffering vicariously for one’s blood-kin) but a lifetime His good will. For one’s self, no violence; for one’s kids, look out!”
Yes, violence and retribution, especially on behalf of others do show quite easily, and we should be comfortable with those emotions and understand that God can handle them when we voice them in prayer or song.
But as we mature in Christ, perhaps we can adopt the spirit of Jesus and of Stephen and pray for the forgiveness of our persecutors. Maybe even the saying that mercy triumphs and judgment will become true for ourselves.
Thank you. As for oneself, like Stephen, one must mature into the forgiveness of one’s torturers. And even the torturers of one’s children one must so mature; but in the hour of my children’s torture, the flair of fierce protection needs no maturing, it is the serrated edge of love itself; to lay down one’s life for the beloved .
Had Adam exercised this edge of love, he would have died trying to defend his beloved, even to being devoured in its jaws. So Jesus accomplished this and more by dying and being swallowed in the grave.
A week before however he formed a whip of cords for the protection of the beloved for whom he wept.
Daniel once again you have added clarity to thoughts I have had over the last year or two, great insight.
Yes we are living in His Kingdom that has no end and we are also living with and serving a living God that does not change. The OC had adjustments brought through Noah, Moses, David and especially Christ.
As you said here "it was the natural outcome of following the path of violence and forsaking the way of peace." we too as a world, just as Israel had done at the appointed times , invite a cleansing future into our lives. It has happened in our pasts personally and globally, and thank God will continue to happen. This New Covenant or New Heaven created by God is a perfect place for His children to reach the ends of their rope and cry out to Him.
I really don’t understand??? You have been a foremost Bible exegete to me, but now you’re “flipping script”, and commenting on I Thessalonians 1-2 about Jesus’ coming to have vengeance on his enemies as “ not being LOVING”?? Yes this is outside of context, yes this comment is not yours to make…
Is Jesus comments in John 6 that “no one can come to the Father unless He draws them” not loving? Or in Christ High Priestly prayer, “ I pray not for the world but those you’ve given me” is that NOT loving? When you cease exegetical practice and go extra- biblical thoughts/philosophy YOU lose everything!?!? Dude, why ?
I’m sorry you can get all I know..
I’m not being confined to a system, that’s fine.
But when you lose the premise and motif of biblical basics, like almost denouncing the book you wrote, I can’t remember the title, something like “the last death”, dude what happened to you?!
Where did you go? I know I have heard from you in Preston circles, but I grew in my faith on your exegetical work! Did you go the route of Sam Frost? From 2017-2022 I was amazed how you could through your Bible programs, correlate/cross reference OT/NT! That’s YHVH purpose for HIS living word! No more? Why? Is it you can’t make an income in that ideology? Idk, God will always provide. But I’m pulling my Substack subscription. I’m sorry….